Battery heating never starts

Faults and Technical chat for the CUPRA Born
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

The thin blue bar is the potential capacity and when you use the throttle the wider blue bar will superimpose over the top of it. Same with regen in green on the left hand side. Neither regen or power useage (green/blue) will exceed the extents of the thinner green and blue bars.
Does that make sense?
Born V2-Tech L collected June 22
BMW Z4 e89 sDrive30i Highline
BMW Z4 e85 3.0i SE

TheBornIDentity
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Post by TheBornIDentity »

girarcat wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:17 pm
TheBornIDentity wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:22 pm You can’t really tell unless you observe the car to be using an enormous amount of energy for no apparent reason (I saw my ID3 using over 7kW while stationary. I’ve never seen the Born do this though.

The only other way you can assume it might have been active is if the green regen bar or blue power bars are quite a long way from being full but go full or nearly full in a shortish time frame (less than 30 mins or so). Of the battery isn’t warm enough you won’t get full regen.
You mean that when applying full throttle the blue power bar won't become full or do you notice the bar is shorter even without flooring it (i.e while stationary)?
You can see the bars aren’t full even when stationary. It’s a bit tricky but it seems that:

If the green bar isn’t full and the battery is at < or = 80% then the battery to cold. (Above 80% regen will be restricted even if warm).

If the blue bar not full and the battery is at 80% or more then the battery is cold. (Below 80% power my be restricted even if warm).

If they are both aren’t full the battery is cold and they are both full the battery is warm.
girarcat
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Post by girarcat »

I see, thanks! When warming up the cabin via app while the car is plugged in, does the battery receive any sort of heating as well?
TheBornIDentity
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Post by TheBornIDentity »

I don’t know as my charger is off when I preheat the cabin. Also charging warms the battery a bit so would be hard to tell.
Last edited by TheBornIDentity on Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Elea4
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Post by Elea4 »

Why doesn't VW use battery pre-conditioning?

Here's a counter-argument from an owner who also appears to be employed in the automotive industry and who shares quite a depth of knowledge on various electro/mechanical issues:

"From a technical point of view:

- Battery preconditioning isn't only a benefit, so think twice about whether you need this function at all
- VW has battery conditioning, which is not activated while driving, but only when actively charging
- the navigation-related battery preconditioning only increases the peak charging power, but significantly reduces the available range

So the developer has to consider whether it doesn't make much more sense to condition the battery during the charging process so that it can achieve maximum range (!) from the energy available in the vehicle.

And this is exactly the path VW has taken so that they do not further reduce the winter range.

So the question does not arise whether VW is able to implement preconditioning, but the question must be: why VW has not implemented preconditioning!


You can read how the ranges are reduced when the interior and battery are heated in the winter range reports of the 2.x SW in the ID.3.

There was also grumbling for all it's worth....

Understandable at partly > 30kWh/100km.


But to heat a > 385kg battery from 0 to 25°C in the best case, so that the maximum charging power is also possible in winter doesn't make any sense at all.


It's better to do that when charging and just lengthen the charging process.

With preconditioning, charging also takes longer because the additional energy has to be recharged, but you will be at the charging station much earlier.


If you look for comparative measurements of charges with and without activated battery preconditioning, you will find corresponding videos and reports from Tesla, where the charging process could be shortened by little more than 5 minutes if the battery is preconditioned.

However, the reloaded amount of energy was higher and the charging range was noticeably reduced.

And unlike VW, Tesla uses the WP for battery heating and not a PTC with COP=1"

https://www.born-forum.de/forum/thread/ ... #post33987
Prospector
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Post by Prospector »

girarcat wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:17 pm
You mean that when applying full throttle the blue power bar won't become full or do you notice the bar is shorter even without flooring it (i.e while stationary)?
Both! There are two bars, the lower one is just a line really. The lower line shows max power (in blue) and regenerative breaking (in green). The upper bar shows current usage.

When the battery is cold the bottom lines shorten with corresponding reduction in peak power and regenerative breaking. The top blue bar won’t exceed the bottom bar, so wouldn’t become full when flooring it.

Interestingly when the battery was fully charged I noticed a reduction in regenerative breaking capacity until I’d used a couple of % of the charge (unrelated to battery temperature as I had full power available from starting).
Cupra Born 58kWh 204ps V1 Vapor Grey
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Daveion
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Post by Daveion »

Prospector wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 2:58 pm
girarcat wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:17 pm
You mean that when applying full throttle the blue power bar won't become full or do you notice the bar is shorter even without flooring it (i.e while stationary)?
Interestingly when the battery was fully charged I noticed a reduction in regenerative breaking capacity until I’d used a couple of % of the charge (unrelated to battery temperature as I had full power available from starting).
That's normal when you think about. You can't regen Into something that is already near full so it appears limited on the green bar scale.
Born V2-Tech L collected June 22
BMW Z4 e89 sDrive30i Highline
BMW Z4 e85 3.0i SE
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